Anna Júlia Lopes*
With COP30 scheduled for November in Belém, expectations are growing that Brazil and China will take advantage of the meeting to deepen their collaboration on the climate agenda. In an interview with IPAM (Amazon Environmental Research Institute), experts explain that the two countries already share agreements and initiatives that should be highlighted at the conference, especially in the fight against deforestation and the energy transition.
Sign up to receive the newsletter Um Grau e Meio for free in your inbox, fortnightly on Mondays.
CEO of Vallya Agro, Larissa Wachholz lived in Beijing from 2008 to 2013 and is a former special advisor to the Ministry of Agriculture, where she led the China hub and established the “China Program”. She holds a master’s degree in Contemporary Chinese Studies from Renmin University of China and has also studied at the London School of Economics and Peking University.
Also interviewed by IPAM, Peng Ren is director of programs at SNISD (South-North Institute for Sustainable Development). The organization works with the agricultural supply chain between China and Brazil, with a focus on making it deforestation-free. The main objective is to promote the establishment of an agricultural traceability platform between the two countries.
Larissa Wachholz
In 2023, China and Brazil renewed their partnership in the fight against climate change. That said, what can we expect from COP30 as far as the two countries are concerned?
China is one of the countries most committed to the climate issue in the world today. I see an increasing interest from Chinese companies in actively participating in the COP30 discussions and showing that they are committed to achieving their greenhouse gas reduction targets and increasing their investments in renewable energies and in the chains related to the energy transition. I notice an interest, for example, in topics such as the production of green fertilizers, green steel, sustainable maritime and aviation fuels.
These Chinese companies are leading investments in these areas in their own country, in China, but my perception is that, as they gain experience in the Chinese market, it will be a natural step for them to take these investment theses outside of China, in their international investments. I think that this engagement of the Chinese corporate sector is a very interesting element and I believe that Brazil could be a possible beneficiary of these investments and should work towards it.
China has, for example, large companies in the internet area, in the digital world. We know that technology, artificial intelligence in particular, requires a great deal of energy to run this whole digital ecosystem that is emerging and which is the future of technological development and cutting-edge technology. A lot of energy will be needed to meet this need and I see Chinese companies starting to engage in mitigating their emissions in this area. This is an element that I emphasize as something very promising.
From the government’s point of view, Brazil has just made a state visit to China and, among the agreements that were signed, there is a collaboration between the MMA and the Chinese state organization responsible for regulating forests and pastures. In this agreement that was signed, there is a commitment to collaboration in the area of forest restoration, which I would highlight as a recent element and which will certainly have implications for COP30.
The COP will be the right time for countries to reaffirm their commitments to the Paris Agreement. Is China expecting this to happen? Should the Chinese government use this moment to send a message about its investments in clean energy?
The Chinese government has been leading global investments in renewable energy. I believe that this will be a major highlight that they will present at COP30. In addition, at COP29, the Chinese presented data on how much they have helped finance the fight against climate change in developing countries. I think that this combination of domestic investment in decarbonization and energy transition with international investment in these areas and aid through programs in less developed countries are pillars that we can imagine and see during COP30.
Can you say that Brazil and China, as members of the BRICS, should fill the vacuum left by developed countries with regard to the climate agenda during the COP?
I don’t think it’s possible that Brazil and China – or the other members of the BRICS – should fill the vacuum left by developed countries with regard to the climate agenda. I think that would perhaps be too ambitious.
There is an important vacuum, a vacuum left mainly by developed economies, but Brazil and China see themselves as developing economies and will need financial resources – especially Brazil, which is a medium-sized economy – to move forward with their greenhouse gas reduction projects.
Although we can say yes, the BRICS countries are expected to play a greater role in this agenda, especially Brazil and China, which are the most committed to the climate agenda. The fact that Brazil is hosting COP30 says a lot about this. We can say that we expect a big commitment from them, but not that this would be a way of filling a gap left by developed countries, because, after all, there is a lot of responsibility from developed countries and there is a lot of potential for multinational companies from developed countries to work on the climate change agenda.
It would be overly ambitious to say that the BRIC countries are going to fill this gap, but they will certainly work to ensure that, despite this gap, we can make progress, because there is a collective need for these countries to act.
China is a benchmark in solar and wind energy. Is there room for a technological partnership between Brazil and China in this sector, especially given that the COP is approaching?
Yes, I think there is room for different technological partnerships between Brazil and China in the field of energy transition. I would highlight, above all, the potential for attracting investments for industries that are what we call “hard to abate“, those that are difficult to decarbonize, which will need environments with renewable energy at a competitive price in order to decarbonize.
It would be a great opportunity for Brazil to receive industrial investments of this nature, which can enable a transfer of technology in areas such as green fertilizers and green steel, and which work towards training the Brazilian workforce in this area. To do this, we need to have a long-term vision for the development of the renewables industry. Brazil already has a lot of Chinese investment in the generation and transmission of renewable electricity, but the country is still facing major challenges in this sector. Some of these international investors are being hurt by this situation and it is important that Brazil signals its desire and interest in dealing with these challenges in order to continue growing the amount of renewable energy available in the country.
China imports much of its soy and meat from Brazil. How can this trade relationship be used to promote sustainable production practices?
I see a growing interest in sustainable trade in China. Of course, they remain absolutely focused on the issue of food security, in other words, food imports, such as animal feed – which is the case with soy – and meat, which remain fundamental pillars for diversifying the diet of the Chinese middle class. So food security continues to come first.
That said, I see a growing interest from Chinese companies to promote actions that will lead to sustainable international agricultural trade. Recently, companies in the dairy sector, such as Mengniu, jointly announced with Cofco the purchase of sustainable soybeans from Brazil for dairy production in China. The soy that will feed the animals that will be used for dairy production, this kind of example is interesting.
You also have to think that in China there are large food chains, fast-foodchains , which are very active and have international commitments linked to the profile of the products they import. These commitments also apply to China, even if they are American or European companies. If they have these chains in China, they will apply these rules in the country, for example, for beef from non-deforested areas.
In the case of China, we have two interesting phenomena to highlight. One is the very aspect of Chinese consumer interest and the other is the presence of multinational agribusiness or food industries that have their restaurants in China and which, consequently, bring to the country and to Chinese importers demands related to sustainability commitments made in other regions of the world.
I think it’s very important for Brazil and China to work together in a coordinated way to discuss common sustainability protocols with regard to agricultural trade, precisely so that the two sides are fully aware of each other’s expectations, since China is the main customer for Brazilian agribusiness in these two areas, and so that Brazil – which is the producing end – isn’t surprised by any actions taken by China.
Many people here in Brazil have this idea that China has no intention of applying sustainability and traceability rules to the soy and meat chains, and although I agree that, especially in soy, it is still a very sensitive issue given the importance of food security in the country, I have seen this growing interest from Chinese companies to talk about it, and also Chinese government bodies and academia, universities and research institutions, reflecting on this issue. If there is this movement of discussion and reflection, we must imagine that there is some kind of reflection on China’s role in the issue of deforestation that could lead to a change in policy at some point. In order for us, as a producer and supplier, to have greater control and be able to anticipate possible actions, we need to work closely with the Chinese to understand exactly what stage they are at in this type of reflection.
Is there room for bilateral cooperation on technologies for low-carbon agriculture?
I see enormous scope for bilateral cooperation on low-carbon agricultural technology and the application of sustainability protocols – which are already being suggested and discussed by the Brazilian Ministry of Agriculture. I think it’s very important to promote low-carbon agriculture. Brazil has a very old low-carbon agriculture program, which has been in existence for more than 10 years and has already shown a lot of results.
It’s very interesting to bring this history of action to the Chinese side and encourage practices that lead to low-carbon agricultural production in Brazil and China. This promotion takes place mainly in two ways: by creating markets that are interested in this type of product and also by promoting financing, in other words, once the sector and producers have access to financing, at lower costs, in exchange for using low carbon agricultural practices, the sector will join in. We need to create market measures that encourage low-carbon agricultural production so that we can actually see a transformation on a large scale.
How can scientific cooperation between Brazil and China advance in the field of climate change?
I see that scientific cooperation between Brazil and China can advance in different ways, mainly because today it is still very small compared to the scope it could have. We have some initiatives underway and, especially in the last year, with Brazil hosting the G20 and, this year, the BRICS meeting and COP30, this has prompted several companies and different governments to make announcements about these issues.
In this sense, I think there has been progress. We have seen the signing of bilateral protocols and some cases of scientific cooperation, for example, between Xinhua University and UFRJ (Federal University of Rio de Janeiro). In the energy transition, there is the Brazil-China Center, which was established more than 10 years ago. There is also cooperation in the agricultural area, which can increasingly look at the issue of climate change, such as a partnership between the Agricultural University of China and Esalq (Higher School of Agriculture) at USP (University of São Paulo).
I think this is a field that still has a lot of room for growth, for collaboration both in the agricultural sector and in low-carbon agriculture, with less use of products such as pesticides – which also leads to a reduction in emissions. Seed biotechnology, for example, is another field where it would make a lot of sense for Brazil and China to collaborate more, including on the climate agenda. I think that scientific collaboration is the key, but this also requires investment, so the more corporate partnerships that are made, the better, because the purpose is to develop technologies that can be taken to the market and then, in fact, become projects that will help in the decarbonization process.
Is there a chance that both the government and the Chinese market will invest in combating deforestation in Brazil?
Yes, I think there’s a good chance that the two governments will work together to invest in combating deforestation, including the agreement that was reached last month during Brazil’s state visit to China. A seminar was also held in Beijing on this subject, with the presence of Brazilian authorities, with the presence of Minister Marina Silva, focused on the area of forest restoration. I think that all of these elements point to a great deal of interest on the part of the Chinese government in this matter because, after all, it was a seminar held in partnership with the Chinese government. I think these are all signs of interest in this area and a willingness to work with Brazil on this issue.
I also see that regulating the carbon market in Brazil is an important step for us to attract more consistent investment in this area, including from the Chinese corporate world, from the large multinationals that are operating around the world and which, like multinationals from other countries, are also looking for projects that will allow them to decarbonize their operations or mitigate the emissions from their operations.
Peng Ren
In 2023, China and Brazil renewed their partnership in the fight against climate change. With this in mind, what can we expect from COP30 in relation to the two countries?
There are several initiatives underway. Within Cosban (the Sino-Brazilian High-Level Concertation and Cooperation Commission), there is a specific subcommittee on the environment and climate. As far as I know, they are developing action plans for next year.
In addition, we will have important events in the coming months, such as the BRICS summit and COP30 itself. I believe there are great opportunities for the two countries to collaborate and even make joint statements on climate change.
Can we say that China and Brazil, as members of the BRICS, have a role to play in filling the gap left by the developed countries in the COP climate agenda?
Yes. China and Brazil share a common vision in the fight against climate change. This includes, for example, controlling illegal deforestation – an issue on which the two countries have already issued a joint bilateral declaration. There are also MoUs (Memorandums of Understanding) between different ministries in both countries on issues such as satellite monitoring, fire control and technological cooperation.
During President Lula’s visit to China, the Brazilian Ministry of the Environment signed an agreement with the NFGA (China’s National Forestry Administration) aimed at controlling deforestation and sharing good reforestation practices developed in China. The idea is to adapt this experience to Brazil.
Another interesting point was Brazil’s proposal to create the TFF (Tropical Forest Forever), an international funding mechanism for conservation. China has shown initial support and there are ongoing discussions about how it could contribute. In China’s case, the country can act as both a recipient and a donor in this mechanism.
How are the two countries dealing with the challenge of reducing emissions without compromising economic growth? Can you name any measures that have already been implemented?
Both China and Brazil are developing countries, so we share experiences and learnings in this balance between development and the environment. China was not a good example in the past – we prioritized economic growth for decades, to the detriment of the environment. But today, we are seeking this balance. In this sense, China can share useful lessons with Brazil.
China leads the world in renewable energies, especially in solar energy, panel production, electric cars and batteries. This opens up space for cooperation with Brazil in technology transfer, setting up production capacity and training local labor. There is a lot to be shared between the two countries.
China imports a large part of Brazil’s soy and beef. How can this trade relationship be used to promote more sustainable production practices?
I believe that both China and Brazil have a shared responsibility for the conservation of tropical forests. We know that Brazil has already developed various regulatory frameworks and sustainability initiatives, both at national and state level. We are learning from these good practices. In China, we have a policy framework known as “ecological civilization” and also dual carbon commitments. These policies have influenced industrial standards and led companies to improve their environmental conduct.
In the case of soy and beef, China is one of the main buyers, and Brazil is one of the main producers and exporters. There are many discussions underway in China – through environmental policies and regulations – to encourage deforestation-free supply chains.
We have already made concrete progress: the first shipment of DCF (deforestation-free) soybeans from Brazil recently arrived in China. I am now involved in the Brazil-China beef chain, helping to develop a specific traceability system for this. We hope to launch this platform during COP30, along with the first purchase agreement between Chinese and Brazilian companies for the export of beef without illegal deforestation.
How can scientific cooperation between China and Brazil advance in the climate field?
The political will already exists – the leaders of both countries have met frequently. The challenge now is to turn this political will into concrete action.
This involves technological cooperation, dialogues on public policies and joint research in areas such as innovation and participation in international forums such as the BRICS and COP30. The key is to coordinate actions strategically and ensure that this collaboration generates practical results in the field.
*IPAM journalist, anna.rodrigues@ipam.org.br